Reverent Responses

God Does Not Accept Your Lifestyle!
Maarten van den Driest Responds

[Posted on December 24, 2000]

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Jordan,

Thank you very much for your kind letter. There do, however, seem to be some misunderstandings, primarily on what biblical truth exactly is and how it should be treated. Well, good of course but people disagree on what good is. It is my view that this is the crux of the problem. There is no problem at all with people disagreeing every once in awhile on what is good and what not but things can get nasty when biblical truth comes in. Those having different views on what God condones or not and what He has meant or not are not automatically based on something else than the Bible. Do you get my point? We all base ourselves on the Bible, God's word. We at Whosoever do so, you do apparently and a whole lot of other people do.

I would however never tell someone who disagrees with me that he or she is not 'biblically based'.

I would like to open this letter by stating that we must not get Christianity mixed up or confused with humanistic views, spiritualistic views or demonic views. To be a Christian is to be Christ like.
There is a slight problem with this remark and that is that it is automatically true. Of course Christianity shouldn't be confused with anything. However, humanistic and spiritualistic views are not wrong because they are humanistic or spiritualistic. Only when we can claim for sure that a concept goes against Christian morals, can we name it wrong. On the other hand, this is extremely hard to do. A wise man once said: "God is a mirror that never changes but everyone who looks into it sees a different face."

Christianity can mean different things to different people, at different times. Christ like, you say" Do you know for sure that Christ was heterosexual? I don't care but we will never know.

Reviewing all I have read on this article there is nothing to back up what has been written. Which is of utmost importance when establishing a biblical foundation for your life? There is one text given out of John 3:16, besides this text there is no scripture given to solidify that which is believed. I believe that the purpose of this is for the gay community to be acceptable in the eyes of God. According to Genesis chapter 1 & 2 everything God made, he said "It was good." Also in John 3:16 confirms also that he loves all including gays and lesbians. But this still does not dispute the fact that biblically he does not accept this as a way of life.

You are quite right. John 3:16, in isolation, does in no way guarantee that God, although He does love gay people, condones homosexual activity. However, it also never rules it out. We get loads of letters of people accusing us of 'finding excuses for the lifestyle'. First of all, there is no lifestyle. Secondly, we do not excuse ourselves in any way. We base our view on the Bible not that we are acceptable 'after all' but that we have always been and always will be just as acceptable and holy as everyone else.

Genesis is a bit of a problem, certainly when it is taken literally. It is true that the Creation accounts tell us of a man and a woman - presumably heterosexual? - who were together and God did say 'that is was good'. The only thing this 'proves' is that heterosexuality is okay. Just the fact that a gay/lesbian couple wasn't included doesn't mean we are not okay. Blind people were also not included, neither were hermaphrodites. Still, every year an untold of people are born blind or as a hermaphrodite or maybe both. No one tells these people that God doesn't condone their lifestyle. No one pickets the funerals of these people or makes up laws that permits people to throw them out of their houses on the spot. Strange? I think so. People of different skin colours also weren't included in Genesis. Since the story comes from the region of Mesopotamia and the people are a kind of light brown there, must we assume that God has a problem with white people or that white (and dark brown) people are in some way inferior?

I am not very good in arguing separate verses but my view on biblical thought does not 'condone' such acts or such thinking. To be clear about it, we at Whosoever do not attempt to get ourselves accepted, we know we are. On the other hand, the world - not God - gives us much pain and suffering. Whosoever was created as a voice for gay Christians and a refuge. Nothing else.

For scripture states that we are created in his own image and after his likeness.

No man or woman is made in His likeness in a literal way and you wouldn't argue that God is straight? I think the Eternal is above such distinctions. God is neither man nor woman. He is God.

There is no text stating such acceptance of this lifestyle by God.
There is no text stating that homosexuality is unacceptable. Please stop using the word 'lifestyle'. There is no gay lifestyle. We are as diverse as any group. Or maybe you really mean sex? Let's talk sex then, and not beat around the bush.

I am not by far a gay basher for this would also be outside of the will of God. For I must consider the grace of God that delivered me from the bands [editor's note: bonds?] of homosexuality not so many years ago.

I do not know what happened to you. I do not know under what tremendous pressure you were put under by clergy, family and all those people who say they love you but I am unsure what to say. If you are truly happier now, then congratulations. If you are now better able to show your true inner face and soul to the Almighty, praise the Lord. Even though I have enormous trouble with things like this I will find it in my heart to congratulate you.

After being converted into the kingdom of God I have found the truth and have backed everything I believe in by this truth. The truth is in the word of God. For I spent a brief time trying to justify those feelings and emotions I had for men.

You were wrong to justify yourself because you would have failed anyway and there is also no need to justify yourself. The sacrifice of Jesus justifies us. No other justification is needed. His life and death justifies homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, transgender people and heterosexuals alike. Why would one justify oneself? For others? Obviously only the one true God is important?

The truth is in the word of God. Yes, of course it is but what do you mean? That what you say is the word of God is the word of God? That I should accept your views to get to claim I believe the word of God? Well, I don't want your permission. I claim Christ Jesus as my personal Saviour on my own and I do not ask anyone or any set of beliefs for permission.

And how something that felt so right could be so very wrong.

If it felt right then why should it be wrong? You were told it is wrong? Of course you were. But what guarantees you that those people who told you homosexuality is wrong are right? Do they speak the word of God? No, they don't, they are humans, like the rest of us. Wouldn't gay and lesbian people be far better candidates as truth-sayers about homosexuality? We know what it is.

After discovering the truth I found peace with God by exploring a few major texts in the Bible.

You realise of course that this is no way of 'converting' us? Our site clearly shows we have studied the Bible for years, intensely and with prayer. We know the texts. We know all the so-called anti-gay texts and we have already dealt with them.

These are a few of the text in which he gives direction in this area: 2 Tim 3 and Genesis 19. These are just a few of many text which has been discussed in the bible on this very subject. I hope this email provokes your thinking and causes you to think twice about that which you believe in and that in whom you choose to follow.

I am not going into discussion over Bible verses at this point. If you really want to repeat that tired old discussion with me, please mail again and I will be happy to oblige you. There is however a point I want to make. I am a bit annoyed that you want me to think. I have thought already.

Let me explain. I am a 24-year-old gay man. I have known I am gay for almost ten years. There is not a day in my life that I do not know and realise that I am gay. There is not a day in my life that I do not experience what it is like. I know what being gay is. I have studied the Bible and biblical literature for over five years. I have joined Whosoever, a group centering around the Christian faith, discussing endlessly the possible and impossible ways of following Christ with mind and body. Ergo: I do not need some strange person telling me - warning me even - to think.

You are, incidentally, quite right about the importance of choosing what you will believe in. The choice is free. There is however not a choice between biblically-based and not biblically-based. Every Christian view is biblically-based, mine is for sure. I will demand this respect from you and ask you to realise that I do pray and think and believe just like you. Please stop and think about that.

You have chosen to block all possibilities for gay people to ever exist as independent Christians. To be acceptable in your view, we must change who we are in our inner selves and you will use the heavy weaponry of 'biblical truth' and such to get us to do it.

I think this is, although you may not agree, a blatantly aggressive act. Why do you not ask us what our faith is? 2 Peter 3:15 tell us to be ready to tell people our faith and our beliefs. In Whosoever, some gay Christians fulfill that verse. Would you silence a Christian fulfilling a biblical commandment? And if you do not understand, why not ask more? Why immediately hand out a short, not very detailed warning?

Is this a Christian thing to do?

Remember when someone is proclaiming what the word of God is saying they must be able to back it up by scripture or it is not of God, but of our adversary the devil (Deutronomy 18:20 ).

We have. Have you read our site? There are numerous articles here, backing up just about any of our views with scripture. Have you checked?

This text gives you the punishment for proclaiming something God has not said. Matt 24:11 also talks about deception of those proclaiming what God has said. We do not know what God says. We have only the Bible. I accept people who disagree with me on any subject. I am ready, willing and able to discuss logically and respectfully any biblical question. However, do not touch my belief! If you come to me and tell me I am wrong and should read the Bible to understand that, I grieve. If you disregard actual truth from life in order to get your doctrine to measure up I feel pity for you.

The same Bible also says that the first and foremost commandment is love. If I love a man, truly love him and act on it, there is nothing wrong with it. Not on earth and not in the heavens. No quotation, no sophistry, no one claiming to 'love the sinner ... ', no one can tear me loose from my belief in Jesus Christ our Lord, my Saviour.

We encourage any literature that is biblically base on this subject to enhance our studies in this area.

And righteous you may feel about it. Does it feel good for you to be so right? Do you feel safe now, now that you have changed and become righteous in the views of the world? Does it feel comfortable? I bet it does. And I think you are right. There is only so much a man can be asked to bear. There are limits to what a person can take. I do not blame you or wish you ill in any possible way. I could accuse you of choosing an easy way out, listening to the world and not to God. I have done so in my thoughts a thousand times, I will admit that. I realise however that it would not be fair to you, it also wouldn't show much respect. Please give us the same respect. Accept first of all that we are fellow Christians.

Strong Son of God, immortal Love
Whom we that have not seen Thy face
By faith and faith alone embrace
Believing where we cannot prove

Our little systems have their day
They have their day and cease to be
They are but broken lights to Thee
And Thou o Lord art more than they.
Alfred Lord Tennyson